I may be an agnostic atheist but I am an adevilite

April 25, 2007 at 7:15 am 17 comments

Message From Satan

I have made an educated choice not to believe in the existence of a higher being who has influenced the course of evolution, a.k.a. “God.” However, I know that I have no way to scientifically or otherwise prove my choice as accurate. I could have easily leaned the other direction and made the choice to believe there is a “God” with the knowledge that I could not validate that choice with proof either.

Let’s assume for a minute I did make the decision to become an agnostic theist. Other than having to register a new domain, the logical conclusion would then be to be agnostic about the existence of the devil. However, I would not be. I would absolutely say the devil does not exist unless the devil was “God” – which would then also validate my belief.

In other words, “God” could be a benevolent creature or an evil monster. In both cases, it would be “God.” However, to say that if this “God” exists then his opposite, a devil, also exists is stretching the limits of my faith. This phenomenon is very much a human creation.

Devil with a pitchforkEven as a Christian, I began to have my doubts in the existence of the devil. In fact, I became an adevilite before becoming an atheist. I struggled with the story of Job where Job was a pawn in a cosmic battle between God and the devil. Talking serpents in the Garden of Eden? Huh? What we now know of as diseases, such as epilepsy, were labeled demonic possessions in the New Testament. I began to seriously doubt the existence of a real being called the devil who had some sort of power over me to control my actions or possess me. I could go into a sermon on this but I will refrain :).

Since my exodus from Christianity, I can safely say that it’s a laughable thought to believe in the devil. God, I can more understand. Devil, not so much.

– Agnostic Atheist

Advertisements

Entry filed under: agnostic, agnostic atheism, agnostic atheist, apologetics, atheism, atheist, Bible, christian, christianity, devil, faith, Religion, satan, skeptic, skepticism, spirituality, theology.

My exodus from Christianity: I can’t go back, can I? When will Christianity be but a speck in the distance?

17 Comments Add your own

  • 1. HeIsSailing  |  April 25, 2007 at 6:04 am

    If you read the Bible in the *approximate* order that it was written in, you can easily see the evolution of Satan or the Devil – the adversary, and how he changed in the minds of the Authors of Scripture (kinda like God). It is a fascinating study.

    If you read Gen 3, there is no hint there that the snake is the same as Satan. It is never stated anywhere in the Bible – not once. I think it was St Augustine who first made that connection and now it an essential Christian belief for the origin of Original Sin.

    When Satan finally does arrive on the scene, he seems to be not God’s eternal enemy, but God’s Hitman – he takes God’s orders to test and tempt and trick humankind. Just as in the Job story.

    I always wondered, as a Christian, what Satan was doing in God’s Throne room in the first place. I thought God could not be in the presence of Sin, and I also thought Satan was the epitome of Sin.. so … .figure that one out.

    and on it goes. As you read Scripture, you can see the nature of Satan progress and become more sophisticated – just like God.

    Reply
  • 2. agnosticatheist  |  April 25, 2007 at 7:27 am

    HIS,

    Thanks for preaching the sermon I resisted 🙂

    If the O.T. was written by modern day Christians, Satan would have been given the credit for a lot of the some of the killings in the O.T., sickness, diseases, etc. However, ONLY 10 deaths were credited to Satan and multi-millions to God. It’s interesting that evil was created by God, God planned evil for his creation, and “evil spirits” came from God NOT the devil.

    1 Samuel 16:14-23 Now the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD tormented him.

    Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

    Judges 9:22-23 After Abimelech had governed Israel three years, God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the citizens of Shechem, who acted treacherously against Abimelech.

    Micah 2:1-3 Woe to those who devise iniquity and work out evil on their beds! At morning light they practice it because it is in the power of their hand. They covet fields and take them by violence, also houses, and seize them. So they oppress a man and his house, a man and his inheritance. Therefore thus says the LORD: “ Behold, against this family I am devising evil, from which you cannot save yourselves; Nor shall you walk proudly, for it will be a time of evil.

    Here I go quoting scripture again 🙂

    aA

    Reply
  • 3. stellar1  |  April 25, 2007 at 8:39 am

    aA,

    I looked up “adevilite” in the dictionary – nadda. I even googled it. Still nothing. What the hell is an adevilite?

    -Stellar1

    Reply
  • 4. agnosticatheist  |  April 25, 2007 at 8:43 am

    Oh Stellar One,

    It’s quite simple actually:

    1) A person who is a THEIST believes in God
    2) An ATHEIST believes there is no God
    3) A person who is a DEVILITE believes in the devil
    4) An ADEVELITE believes there’s no devil

    I thought about using ASATANIST but Satanist has a different definition than worshiping and believing in Satan – as I learned recently. Damn that Christian indoctrination! Of course, that’s what I get for listening to Mike Warnke’s made up stories (funny as they were).

    aA

    Reply
  • 5. mysteryofiniquity  |  April 25, 2007 at 9:35 am

    aA,
    Interesting that you mention Warnke. I love the Jesus People write up in their now defunct magazine….oh, what was it called?…. anyway. Great expose!

    I believe, after reading your post, that my new designation is “agnostic theistic adevilite.” What a bumper sticker!

    Seriously though, it’s interesting that you separate a devil and Satan. A devil implies a little imp that thwarts God’s so called plan. But Satan is the old Zoroastrian workhorse that posits an evil entity who has equal powers with the “God” of creation. Christians love dualism and if there is a God and all his angels, then there MUST be a Devil/Satan and all his demons. It only makes sense after all! Forget that the bible doesn’t support it. Of course Milton does and a lot of Christians are products of the Western Literary collective mind!

    If the doctrine of the devil and Satan doesn’t prove that Christianity is a product of syncretism I don’t know what does!

    Reply
  • 6. mysteryofiniquity  |  April 25, 2007 at 9:39 am

    HIS,

    Excellent point about God not being in the presence of sin! This scene in Job implies that Satan too is under God’s power and dominion and only does God’s bidding. Therefore, the logical conclusion is that evil comes from this God, as well as good. Therefore God is the author and source of evil, not Eve. Oh what a tangled web we weave….

    Reply
  • 7. Heather  |  April 25, 2007 at 10:20 am

    **If you read Gen 3, there is no hint there that the snake is the same as Satan. It is never stated anywhere in the Bible – not once. I think it was St Augustine who first made that connection and now it an essential Christian belief for the origin of Original Sin. **

    That’s the most fascinating thing about Satan — he is not consistently portrayed in the Bible at all, and if in any other ‘historical’ text, that would be enough to cast doubts on its accuracy.

    **Therefore, the logical conclusion is that evil comes from this God, as well as good** That’s the conclusion I’ve always reached, too. If God is all-powerful, and the Creator and Controller of all, then He is responsible for evil in some way. You can argue that evil/darkness is merely an abscence of God, but that still leaves God choosing to be absent.

    Reply
  • 8. Mike C  |  April 25, 2007 at 10:35 am

    I’m not sure I believe in the “devil” per se anymore either. However, historic Christian theology has never viewed the devil (or Satan) as God’s “opposite” either – at least not in the sense of being equal in power to God. The belief has always been in the devil as a subordinate, Created being. As someone else mentioned, if you want straight dualism you have to go to Zoroastrianism (or at least later forms of it – as I understand it, Zoroaster himself didn’t specifically preach dualism).

    Reply
  • 9. mysteryofiniquity  |  April 25, 2007 at 11:03 am

    Mike,
    No, the church has never taught the absolute dualism of Satan/Evil and God/Good, bu they imply it every day by making Satan as powerful as God by tempting Christians, causing disasters, etc. There’s no evidence that any kind of being exists like this or has that power.

    Zoroaster or Zarathustra was very dualistic almost to the extreme.

    Reply
  • 10. salahudin  |  April 25, 2007 at 12:21 pm

    Love the article!

    Care to exchange blogroll links?

    We’re “Towelians”, (agnostics and atheists, mostly agnostics…)

    You may be interested in this:

    http://towelianism.wordpress.com/2007/04/21/why-worship-god/

    and in this:

    http://towelianism.wordpress.com/2007/04/16/faqs-about-agnosticism/

    Reply
  • 11. HeIsSailing  |  April 25, 2007 at 12:38 pm

    What really amazes me is the number of Christians who actually *pray* to their enemy Satan – binding him, telling him to flee, commanding him to do this or that in the name of Jesus. This is attributing more power to him than is ever justified in Scripture.

    Reply
  • 12. agnosticatheist  |  April 25, 2007 at 3:12 pm

    Mike,

    You are correct in referencing *historic* Christian theology. However, the devil has been evolving over time, as pointed out in these discussions. In the charismatic/pentecostal community he is almost an equal to God with an hierarchical kingdom of demons. Peretti’s books were instrumental in publicizing this doctrine.

    I know in the Word Of Faith circles, the devil has been given the label “god of this world” and, as HIS pointed out, receives a lion share of “prayer” time.

    aA

    Reply
  • 13. tobeme  |  April 25, 2007 at 4:46 pm

    Good thoughts. Of course in Christianity the devil is a creation of God, so in a sense this aligns with your thought, that God and the Devil are one in the same. Interesting thoughts.

    Reply
  • 14. Mike C  |  April 25, 2007 at 5:17 pm

    Zoroaster or Zarathustra was very dualistic almost to the extreme.

    I admit I haven’t studied it directly, but from what I have read, my understanding was that Zoroaster taught that Ahura Mazda was the supreme God and that he would eventually triumph over Angra Mainyu, which would seem to imply that there was not complete equality between the two. As I understand it, it was the later development of Zurvanite Zoroastrianism that claimed the two were co-equal (but opposite) twin deities. But I’m no expert.

    Reply
  • 15. beepbeepitsme  |  April 26, 2007 at 10:07 pm

    Isaiah 45:7 – “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.”

    (Amos 3:6) – “Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?”

    Naughty gawd. Tsk Tsk

    Reply
  • 16. LaShawn  |  April 28, 2007 at 7:09 am

    Adevilite? That’s a phrase I definitely haven’t heard before.

    I think I stopped believing in the devil sometime in high school (around 5 years ago). I decided that too many people abused the idea of it so they wouldn’t have to take responsibility for their own actions.

    Reply
  • 17. agnosticatheist  |  April 28, 2007 at 8:15 pm

    LaShawn,

    I agree. The devil sure gets a lot of “credit” for decisions made by our own doings.

    aA

    Reply

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

Trackback this post  |  Subscribe to the comments via RSS Feed


Agnostic Atheism Wager

Whether or not you believe in God, you should live your life with love, kindness, compassion, mercy and tolerance while trying to make the world a better place. If there is no God, you have lost nothing and will have made a positive impact on those around you. If there is a benevolent God, you will be judged on your merits and not just on whether or not you ignored the lack of evidence of his/her existence and blindly believed.

%d bloggers like this: